Comments on: Ammonium Sulphamate Weed Killer Banned!

By: John

John — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:46:15 +0000

@Marina the Gardener: Thank you for your comments but that’s a US study and you can’t expect the EU to get on the net and accept US work..

I’m afraid the science on there is a bit beyond me – if you understand it please enlighten us ignorant people.

By: Marina the Gardener

Marina the Gardener — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:22:34 +0000

Chronic toxicity: In a 105-day study with rats fed 500 mg/kg/day, AMS did not cause signs of poisoning. Some inhibition of growth was seen at doses of 1000 mg/kg/day [66]. There was no skin irritation, nor any signs of systemic toxicity, when 20% and 50% water-based solutions were applied to the shaved skin of rats [65].
More from that info site : “Reproductive effects: Reproduction was not impaired when rats were given dietary doses of 17.5 or 25 mg/kg/day of AMS for 15 months [8]. This suggests that AMS does not cause reproductive effects.
Teratogenic effects: No data are currently available.
Mutagenic effects: Limited data indicate that AMS in not mutagenic. The Ames/Salmonella assay was negative for AMS, indicating that it does not cause permanent changes in genetic material [8].
Carcinogenic effects: A rat study indicates that AMS is not carcinogenic at doses of 25 mg/kg/day [8]. There are insufficient additional data to confidently determine the carcinogenicity status of AMS [67].

What about birds, and fish, which are ususally more sensitive?:
Ecological Effects:
Effects on birds: AMS is practically nontoxic to birds. The oral LD50 is 3000 mg/kg in quail and 4200 mg/kg in ducks [22,1]. In a 14-day feeding study, 150 and 590 mg/kg/day AMS had no effect on quail. Quail fertility was not affected when 150 mg/kg/day was mixed with their feed for two 10-day periods [58].
Effects on aquatic organisms: Ammonium sulfamate is practically nontoxic to fish. A 46% solution of AMS becomes toxic in perch at 300 mg/L water [30]. The LC50 (24-hour) of AMS is 1250 mg/L in harlequin fish [28]. A concentration of 30 mg/L of AMS had no effect on rainbow trout and aquatic invertebrates [8].
Effects on other organisms: Deer were not harmed when they were fed AMS-treated leaves [28].

By: Marina the Gardener

Marina the Gardener — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:19:11 +0000

So Ammonium Sulphamate needed to be tested on dogs. Well, what does this say, then?: “Fate in humans and animals: AMS is readily absorbed into the bloodstream from the gastrointestinal tract [66]. Following oral administration of AMS to dogs for 5 days, 80 to 84% of the dose was excreted as sulfamic acid in the urine.” From this link, via the AS wiki http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/ammosulf.htm

By: James

James — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:54:07 +0000

Talking of Roundup, As i understand from what i heard on a Farming Today programme on Radio 4, Roundup is highly valued by wheat growers. They spray it onto the crop as soon as the grain is mature in order to accelerate ‘ripening’ and thus bring forward the harvest and subsequent recropping processes!!

By: Sam Tooke

Sam Tooke — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:24:51 +0000

I just came across this thread,trying to buy root-out and read it all. I have had a vague notion about a lot of this stuff but hadn’t put it all together like this, it’s shocking! I ran out of root out last year anyway and since not seeing it in the shops any more decided to try on line. I don’t compost much any more, these days I tip all my green waste at a private tree processing centre for a tenner. However I may now start composting it all again! x

By: Chris

Chris — Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:51:00 +0000

I have used “Sulphate of Ammonia” as a fertiliser with great success and I have used “Ammonium Sulphamate” to wipe out a garden full of horsetail – a huge relief. Is there someone (a chemist) who can explain the completely different properties of these seemingly very similar chemicals – they even look similar!

By: Sylvia

Sylvia — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:17:51 +0000

Is there Ammonium Sulphamate in Wilkinsons ‘compost maker’?

By: DiggerPunk

DiggerPunk — Mon, 30 May 2011 18:13:00 +0000

This has been interesting reading. I am a chemist, and a hobby gardener. Having been struck down by a brutal infestation of horsetail, I am starting to tear my hair out at the constant nipping of the stalks to try and exhaust the rhizomes, the hand crushing of them to allow them to absorb the glyphosphate, and the repeated application of said glyphosphate.

From what I can gather ammonium sulfamate was banned under red tape when all pesticides were reviewed, under the wider scope of REACH. This was a noble effort, and the aim was to establish whether some chemicals that had been in use for year were in fact harmful. Most substances were immediately passed as there was sufficient data to allow them to meet new standards. Ammonium sulfamate was by REACH as there is a great deal of data thereon, but not as a pesticide. There was an objection from the Irish Rapporteur that there was insufficient safety data regarding exposure for dogs, presumably from the dog-lover lobby in much the same way as there is much fear about the use of slug pellets around dogs. The EU committee felt that there was no need to carry out dog testing, since the normal LD50 (lethal dose 50%) was available for rats and mammals have pretty much the same reaction to most poisons, scaled for their size. And so a stalemate was reached. This isn’t really the fault of the EU, rather a daft situation between 2 individuals. This happens all the time in British politics why would the EU be any different, especialy given that we are signatories.

By: brian

brian — Thu, 26 May 2011 19:17:34 +0000

Coming in a bit late Jo but I used it effectively on several trees; hazel, a big privet, lilac and something I couldn’t determine. Using an ordinary wood chizel and mallet, I teased back the bark all the way around the cut and rubbed solid crystal into the gap left. Worked first time with aboslutely no re-growth.

By: brian

brian — Thu, 26 May 2011 18:45:18 +0000

Right chaps, I’ve got two houses to look after. My Welsh cottage is set in 66 acres so I can buy neat ‘Roundup’ from the farm-shop. It is very effective at killing Ivy stone dead when diluted 50ccs in 4 litres water (no additional wetting agent required). In Stockport the nextdoor neighbour isn’t totally mobile and her horsetails, though small in area, are pushing up through our paviors. Crying out for ammonium sulphamate and after falling across this blog-site, I have discovered a very old packet of ‘Deep Root’ containing the banned herbicide, before it was replaced with the same stuff as in ‘Roundup’. Only last night she asked me if I could get rid of her weeds. Well love, yes I can. It’s Ok people, she has a cat not a dog(!). So, if you can’t get the neat ‘Roundup’ like me, then it seems reasonable to purchase the new ‘Deep Root’ with its glyphosphate constituent and mix it accordingly (perhaps a stronger concentration than ‘ready-mixed)to kill ivy.